March 7, 2011

Controversy Week: Abortion

I know I said I'd only write about one controversial topic, but over the course of the weekend I decided I kind of wanted to write about all of them. I am declaring this Controversy Week here at NoFU. Now, since we will be talking about subjects that often make people's blood boil I'd like to remind you of the one rule I have here at NoFU. You can call me a baby-eating Nazi-loving necrophiliac all you want in your comments, but if you aren't respectful towards the other participants I will have to remove your comment. First up for Controversy Week, the topic that is the odds on favorite to cost me the most followers: abortion.

Controversy Week, Day 1: Abortion.

The biggest problem I have with the abortion debate is that it is framed in a way that makes it impossible to have a constructive conversation about the pro's and con's of whether abortion should be illegal or not. So much time, money and sanity is wasted on the question of whether abortion is morally right or wrong that little thought is ever given to what the answer to that question would actually mean.

Let's say for a minute that the pro-life side wins and abortion is outlawed. Only the most naive person in the world would think that abortions would stop happening in America. You know when you hear about dead babies being found in dumpsters and how repulsive it makes you feel? Get ready to read stories like that, every single day. Except it won't only be babies. Legitimate doctors (for the most part) aren't going to sacrifice their careers to give women abortions. Illegitimate surgeons will quickly become the fastest growing career path in America. Do you really want your daughter having her insides ripped out by some guy in a warehouse because she's too scared to tell her parents she fucked up and got pregnant?

You're probably thinking that my daughter would never put herself in that position. In a perfect world no one's daughter would ever need an abortion. I don't think anyone, anywhere has ever thought that an abortion was a good thing. No matter how you shake it, abortions are always a shitty option in a shitty situation. Allegedly, there are women out there that use abortion as birth control but I've never heard of any actual woman saying that. Everyone I know that has had one has told me that it was an absolutely awful experience and I tend to believe them.

In the end, I'm pro-choice because there isn't really another option. I don't believe that outlawing abortion is at all practical no matter how wrong you think abortion might be. I would much rather have qualified physicians giving women abortions than having bad people in bad places give them. Instead of arguing about an issue that will never be fully solved, maybe we would be better served putting our time and energy into sexual education and giving condoms out for free on every street corner. That's a real way to do something about preventing abortions, so where is the pro-free condom movement in America?


  1. now this is something i like! :) I am for abortion based on the situation. Because I have lived in those shoes before. I was raped at 17 and got pregnant. I therefor had an abortion. Sorry to put my junk out there, but I can make a stand for those reasons and woman who have been in my situation. I am a stronger person because of my past and I am not ashamed of what I had to do.

  2. feel free to delete the above comment for personal reasons if you would like.

  3. In my limited blogging experience, RACE is the one topic about which people are incapable of speaking sensibly. There is no way to discuss race without someone getting offended.

    With abortion... I just don't know. I do not agree with partisans on either side about it. I think it IS taking a human life, sure. I am not wise enough to know at what exact moment I would designate it a human life, but...

    The thing is, EVERY culture has outlawed the taking of human life in some situations and allowed for the taking of human life in others. If you ban it, it's called murder. If you don't, it's not called murder.

    So abortion is the taking of a human life. But it's not murder.

    I suspect we have fewer situations where you can take life than most other cultures. And if we're going to allow for kiling ANYWHERE, then it ought to be PRIOR TO the person having had human experiences (abortion) or after they've basically checked out (euthanasia situations).

    Also, people who cut me off in traffic. There needs to be an exception for taking life there, too.

  4. Yes this is one to get the shrill moralizers squawking on both sides without looking at how their arguments are framed and followed through with.
    Unfortunately for both sides, especially the pro-lifers, their arguments are drowned out in a sea of emotional twists and turns, rendering what they have to say largely irrelevant. Pro-choicers can do that to a lesser degree.
    The real point here, and you do have it in a nutshell my man, is that the people at the centre of the debate, women, lose out on making informed choices about whether or not to have an abortion and have to go through needless pain and suffering in making that choice.
    Free condoms, whilst not the be all and end all of the debate, would make a dent in alleviating that painful decision.
    I guess you can figure out which side of the fence I reside on.
    As the newsreader on the Simpson's says, 'that's my two cents'
    Well structured post.

  5. It is a very divisive issue. I'm pro-choice in the sense that as a woman I don't want someone to dictate what I can and can't do with my body. I believe that would be a slippery slope. A good example of that is South Dakota.

    I agree with your pro-condom stance. Focusing on sex education and education in general are the answer I believe. Many studies have indicated that fertility rates, including teenage pregnancy, decline in areas where woman have access to education.

    Personally, I guess you could say I'm pro-life though that doesn't mean I'm "anti-contraception."

    I think there are a lot of pointless arguments on both sides. For example the argument about when "life" begins is ridiculous in my view. It's not like an embryo or fetus that is aborted is say a pig or a chicken -- it's a human. However, on the pro-life side there are the religious arguments that fly in the face of separation of church and state. I guess we could argue point by point until we're all blue in the face; it boils down to each person making a (hopefully educated) decision for herself.

  6. I do see abortion as killing a human, but I'm also pro-choice, if only for the reason that I should be able to do what I want with my body. I don't think I, personally, would ever have one, but I could see why other women would.

    As for using it as birth control? There were plenty of girls I went to high school who had had multiple abortions before they ever graduated. In that case, I don't think they should be allowed to keep going back and doing it over and over again. But how can you stop them?

    The other reason I'm pro-choice is because there are a ridiculous number of people out there who SHOULD have aborted their babies, because they obviously don't give a fuck about them.

  7. i say abort 'em. if mummy doesn't want baby in the first place, we are just adding more and more people to the system that grow up in shitty situations, and grow into maladjusted adults.

    end of story, if you ask me. if you don't want the kid in the first place, then no amount of societal moral pressure can turn you into a good mother who loves her offspring.

    and personally, i would rather have been aborted than to be raised in a home where i was resented and punished, just for existing.

  8. Victoria: I wouldn't dream of deleting your comment! After what you've been through if anyone deserves to be heard on the issue it's you. I admire people who have the courage to make a stand like that publicly because it might just help someone else not feel as bad about having it happen to them.

    Katy: Well it just so happens that race is the subject I'm talking about tomorrow so we'll see how that goes. I've never really had trouble talking about race but I think it's tricky for some because you pretty much have to go all or nothing on it. Either unabashedly offend people like a stand-up comedian or walk an extremely fine line like a timid politician.

    That's why I don't really try to get into the what is life question because its sort of impossible to really tell. I mean, sperm swim around and do stuff and carry human DNA, shouldn't they technically be considered alive then? If so I've technically murdered more people than Stalin in 9th grade alone. I mean, life isn't even defined in the dictionary with any sort of clarity so I don't see the point in arguing about something that can't be won. Well, except for sport of course.

    Dan: I agree, no woman should have people calling her a baby-killer on what is already going to be one of the most difficult days of her life just because some people got riled up enough to try and make a misguided difference in the world.

  9. ab: I'm glad you brought up the education issue because that's such a good point. In a sense just being smarter and learning more will naturally just keep you from making as many stupid decisions. It's pretty simple really.

    Sara: It always boggles my mind when people just don't even try to be good parents. People have been having babies for thousands of years now, it's really not that complicated. Sure it takes a bit of hard work and some common sense but anyone can raise a decent kid with a bit of effort. Or at least not raise a serial killer.

    Kage: That's a little harsh for me because I know a number of people whose moms were complete fuck-ups who didn't put much thought into raising their kids but they had grandparents, or an aunt who ended up raising them and they turned into reasonably well adjusted adults. Then again I know people that steal DVD players from those people so I could see your point too. You're better at controversy than me I think.

  10. I agree. It is practically impossible to have a constructive conversation about it. And I don't pretend to know the answers. I only know what I can and can't do, and what seems wrong to me and what doesn't. I don't think that's enough expertise or authority to start picketing about it or telling other people what to do. So I guess that leaves me as pro-choice, in the end. Although my two unplanned pregnancies landed me with two unplanned kids. Ha. Fortunately I like them.

  11. No one really thinks about what would happen if abortions were outlawed, and you're exactly right. They would continue to happen, but in dangerous and unclean settings. Let's keep it safe and legal.

  12. Great points.
    I agree. And thinking about it, as a woman I would want to do with my body what I want and as long as there is no real baby inside me, I wouldn't allow some old laws to tell me I have to endure it if I don't want to.
    Nahno ∗ McLein

  13. I am pro choice.

    While I personally could never have one (yes even if I was raped, there are other options) I would never tell a woman she can't have one. It's your body and you should be able to do with it what you will.

    There is one exception that makes me sick to think about and that's partial birth abortions. While they are illegal, they do happen, and I think they are absolutely disgusting.

  14. I'm pro-choice. Although if time travel is ever invented, I may go back in time and force Glenn Beck's mother to get an abortion.

  15. First thing I thought when I read this was SEX ED, before you got to that point. Our society is so puritanical - we only do extremes, either not talk about sex or put sexual acts and behaviors all over the media, yet no healthy talks about sex beyond the anatomical. I got an issue of Glamour at the store where they have a section on the "Most Glam Tweens" which includes cleavaged photos of 10-13 year olds. And they wonder why girls are having sex earlier and earlier! We've got to open up the talking about sex and let go of our own issues if we want to protect our girls from ever getting into this conundrum in the first place.

    BTW I'm very much pro-choice, no matter what the situation. Just because you've had multiple abortions doesn't mean you should have a "maximum" then be forced to have the baby if you've had what someone says is "too many". Sex ed for me in high school was a co-ed class on childbirth and a banana demonstration. If they thought of splitting the class into separate rooms of boys vs. girls, I bet questions would have actually been asked instead of giggles and blushes.

    Ya know?

  16. Mandy's Kidding: Ha, that last bit made me laugh. And yea, it's hard to legislate morality on an issue that's so hard to talk about rationally.

    Tsarista: Couldn't agree more.

    Nahno: To be honest, this is just yet another reason for me to be glad I'm not a woman. That's a tough decision to make and I'm totally happy copping out on it.

  17. Shelly: Those are pretty damn gruesome and I think those are wrong too. If you're going to get an abortion get it early on. I don't understand it when women wait that long. I've never had a period myself but I understand they come pretty regularly and if it doesn't you should know something is up pretty early on.

    Austin: I'd chip in on gas for that trip.

    Eco: Well, later on in the week I will definitely be getting to sex so stay tuned.

    I think sex-ed definitely needs to be more prevalent and more talked about because it just makes sense. I don't get why some parents are so crazy about it getting it banned.

  18. I agree with you, Chris. Abortions will NEVER go away. In fact, I just heard a news story the other day of a 13-year-old girl who gave herself an abortion (and lead poisoning) with a pencil. :(

    I honestly think birth control and sex ed will help decrease the need for abortions. That is what we should be pushing right now, rather than pro-life this and pro-choice that. That should be the issue!

    PS. Sadly, I have known two women who used abortions like birth control and it makes me sick. One woman had 6 abortions, the other close to 10. :(

  19. Women will always need abortions, as you've said.

    While free condoms and better sex ed. would help, women would STILL need abortions, so places that say that parental permission is needed if you're under 16, or places where abortions are fucking expensive (like here in Australia)need to be fixed. They really, really do. It's so important.

    I use protection, AND the pill, and I could STILL get pregnant. Then what would I do? I don't have 2 grand to blow on an abortion. What on earth *would* I do? It's enough to send me into a panic attack.

    Abortions need to be more accessible, sex ed needs to be a lot better, and the pill/shot/implant need to be much less expensive. They need to be the price of tampons.

  20. Jennifer: That's so sad, the poor girl. Shouldn't these women learn their lesson after 2, at least 3 abortions? Why not just get your tubes tied at that point?

    Infidel: That's a good point. I focused on condoms because as a guy when you think safe sex that's what you think of. Really all forms of birth control should be free and easily accessible I think. It would make things so much easier for everyone.

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  22. Some things just shouldn't be legislated. Honestly, it's always bothered me that this should even be on the docket. What we ought to be legislating is the standard of education in this country. And sex-ed should be a huge part of the equation. But we also can't rely on schools to educate our children on sex-ed issues. Parents need to talk openly with their children. And from an early age! Never underestimate what your kid is hearing on the street. All that said (and being very much pro-choice), if my daughter were to get pregnant-- an unwanted pregnancy--I'd probably have a tough time if she decided to abort. There are emotional scars that go along with that decision. But I'd absolutely support her either way

  23. I don't think I could have an abortion - in theory, anyway. If you turned around to me tomorrow and told me I was pregnant, I don't THINK I would consider an abortion but I can't know that for sure.

    Which means I would never force my beliefs on other people - I know friends who have had abortions for their own reasons and would never judge them for it. I don't approve of people who, like you say, use it as a form of birth control - then again, people who do that maybe SHOULDN'T procreate!

    Good point on the pro free condom movement!!!

  24. Jayne: I think it's only a political issue because it gets people riled up and donating money. I think any practical person would know that the status quo is probably the best solution we'll ever come up with.

    P: See, what bothers me about someone that would use it as birth control the most is that if she's having that much unprotected sex she is probably completely diseased. The public health side of it freaks me out more than the multiple abortions if I'm being honest.


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